The Lord's Prayer and Jewish liturgy
Nov. 26th, 2016 10:07 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
my_torahSome years ago, I asked a question on a moderated Jewish newsgroup discussion, about the Lord's Prayer.
This slightly "spooked" the moderators of the group, but it was allowed through - and I have always treasured one or two of the answers - so I have decided to reproduce them here:
The Question
============
I have read (in a book by Edmund Fleg) that many, if not all of the
phrases in the Christian prayer "The Lord's Prayer" have their origins
in Jewish sources.
I am interested in learning to what extent this is in fact the case.
Here is a version of the Lord's Prayer ( from chapter 6 of the Gospel
of Mathew):
"Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we also
have forgiven our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory
forever.
Amen."
Can anyone help me by locating any relevant Jewish source-texts
Chapter and verse?
Jonathan
Replies
=======
> I have read (in a book by Edmund Fleg) that many, if not all of the
> phrases in the Christian prayer "The Lord's Prayer" have their origins
> in Jewish sources.
> I am interested in learning to what extent this is in fact the case.
> "Our Father in heaven,
> hallowed be your name,
> your kingdom come,
> your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
The Kaddish says something similar: "Exalted and hallowed
be his great name. . . May he establish his kingdom. . . "
> And forgive us our debts, as we also
> have forgiven our debtors.
(Possibly a nice triple word play in Hebrew existed here,
in which "forgive " derives from the root "nasa", "debts and debtors"
from "nashah", and "temptation" --next verse--from "nasah".)
> And do not lead us into temptation,
> but deliver us from the evil one.
"Bring me not into sin, or into iniquity, or into temptation,
or into contempt." (Berakoth 60b)
> For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory
> forever.
Mishnah Yoma 6.2 (and in some other places, I think)
notes that the proper liturgical response to hearing the High Priest
pronounce the divine Name was for the assembled people to
say, "Blessed be the Name of the glory of his kingdom forever and ever."
This response was also given after the saying of the Shema.
So, this phrase might at one time have been a reflexive response
after almost any prayer, much like "Amen".
Randolf Parrish
========================================================================
...
I'm posting this off the top of my head, simply giving phrases that
come to mind. The list is in no way exhaustive. I also assume that
you have access to a siddur [prayer book] with translation.
>Here is a version of the Lord's Prayer ( from chapter 6 of the Gospel
>of Mathew):
>
>"Our Father in heaven,
Mishna Rosh Hashana, end of 3rd Perek - "when they submitted
themselves to their Father in Heaven". Gemara Sota (IIRC - but I
can't remember the daf) - "we have no-one to rely on but our Father in
Heaven."
> hallowed be your name,
Kaddish - Yisgadal viyiskadash shemey rabbo [May His great name be
exalted and hallowed]
> your kingdom come,
I'm not sure what this actually means - perhaps the beginning of the
second para. of Alenu
>your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
I'm not sure whether this is a statement or a wish. Either way, it
seems a bit unnecessary, not to say presumptious.
>Give us this day our daily bread.
Hatrefeni lechem chuki [give me my allotted bread], in the prayer one
can insert in Shema Kolenu in the Amidah.
>And forgive us our debts, as we also
>have forgiven our debtors.
I've never entirely understood this, in any of its various iterations.
Possibly the opening of Krias Shema al Hamita - hareni mochel kol
shechoto kenegdi... [behold, I forgive all who have sinned against me]
>And do not lead us into temptation,
Morning Blessings - velo lidey nisayon [and not to a temptation]
>but deliver us from the evil one.
ibid - misoton hamaschis [from a destructive enemy (Soton also = evil
inclination)]
>For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory
>forever.
Alenu, end of second para. - ki hamalchus shelcho hi uli'olmey ad
timloch bichovod [for the kingdom is yours and you will rule forever
in glory].
>Amen."
Omein [Amen]
Sorry, but I don't have time at the moment to actually take down the
sefarim [books] and do some research.
Menachem
--
M Glickman
Gateshead
This slightly "spooked" the moderators of the group, but it was allowed through - and I have always treasured one or two of the answers - so I have decided to reproduce them here:
The Question
============
I have read (in a book by Edmund Fleg) that many, if not all of the
phrases in the Christian prayer "The Lord's Prayer" have their origins
in Jewish sources.
I am interested in learning to what extent this is in fact the case.
Here is a version of the Lord's Prayer ( from chapter 6 of the Gospel
of Mathew):
"Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we also
have forgiven our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory
forever.
Amen."
Can anyone help me by locating any relevant Jewish source-texts
Chapter and verse?
Jonathan
Replies
=======
> I have read (in a book by Edmund Fleg) that many, if not all of the
> phrases in the Christian prayer "The Lord's Prayer" have their origins
> in Jewish sources.
> I am interested in learning to what extent this is in fact the case.
> "Our Father in heaven,
> hallowed be your name,
> your kingdom come,
> your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
The Kaddish says something similar: "Exalted and hallowed
be his great name. . . May he establish his kingdom. . . "
> And forgive us our debts, as we also
> have forgiven our debtors.
(Possibly a nice triple word play in Hebrew existed here,
in which "forgive " derives from the root "nasa", "debts and debtors"
from "nashah", and "temptation" --next verse--from "nasah".)
> And do not lead us into temptation,
> but deliver us from the evil one.
"Bring me not into sin, or into iniquity, or into temptation,
or into contempt." (Berakoth 60b)
> For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory
> forever.
Mishnah Yoma 6.2 (and in some other places, I think)
notes that the proper liturgical response to hearing the High Priest
pronounce the divine Name was for the assembled people to
say, "Blessed be the Name of the glory of his kingdom forever and ever."
This response was also given after the saying of the Shema.
So, this phrase might at one time have been a reflexive response
after almost any prayer, much like "Amen".
Randolf Parrish
========================================================================
...
I'm posting this off the top of my head, simply giving phrases that
come to mind. The list is in no way exhaustive. I also assume that
you have access to a siddur [prayer book] with translation.
>Here is a version of the Lord's Prayer ( from chapter 6 of the Gospel
>of Mathew):
>
>"Our Father in heaven,
Mishna Rosh Hashana, end of 3rd Perek - "when they submitted
themselves to their Father in Heaven". Gemara Sota (IIRC - but I
can't remember the daf) - "we have no-one to rely on but our Father in
Heaven."
> hallowed be your name,
Kaddish - Yisgadal viyiskadash shemey rabbo [May His great name be
exalted and hallowed]
> your kingdom come,
I'm not sure what this actually means - perhaps the beginning of the
second para. of Alenu
>your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
I'm not sure whether this is a statement or a wish. Either way, it
seems a bit unnecessary, not to say presumptious.
>Give us this day our daily bread.
Hatrefeni lechem chuki [give me my allotted bread], in the prayer one
can insert in Shema Kolenu in the Amidah.
>And forgive us our debts, as we also
>have forgiven our debtors.
I've never entirely understood this, in any of its various iterations.
Possibly the opening of Krias Shema al Hamita - hareni mochel kol
shechoto kenegdi... [behold, I forgive all who have sinned against me]
>And do not lead us into temptation,
Morning Blessings - velo lidey nisayon [and not to a temptation]
>but deliver us from the evil one.
ibid - misoton hamaschis [from a destructive enemy (Soton also = evil
inclination)]
>For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory
>forever.
Alenu, end of second para. - ki hamalchus shelcho hi uli'olmey ad
timloch bichovod [for the kingdom is yours and you will rule forever
in glory].
>Amen."
Omein [Amen]
Sorry, but I don't have time at the moment to actually take down the
sefarim [books] and do some research.
Menachem
--
M Glickman
Gateshead
